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January 17
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...is not the same as the death of a human. I'm speaking for ranch foxes, per say. Not more intelligent creatures like elephants or monkeys. 

There are a lot of issues going around right now regarding anti-fur people. Anti-fur people, let me explain to you why it is not morally wrong to kill a ranch fox.

Wait, let me establish that killing is a fact of life. Everyone has killed something in some way or another, no matter what age. Anything with a life can be killed, whether it be a bug (which we ALL know we have killed at one point in our lives), or a human being. If you squash a bug, you just murdered something--took away its life. Even though it doesn't have the brain capacity to understand that it's about to die--like foxes, which we kill, too.

Anti-fur people tend to over-dramatize the death of a ranch animal. Here's the thing: Animals like foxes don't realize they're about to die. Which makes the experience of its death--for it--not a scary thing. It's not going to panic, bow down on its furry knees, and beg for its life to be spared. It's not going to ask that you spare its friend in exchange for its own life.

If we were to ranch humans, on the other hand, for whatever reason, they would KNOW they're about to die because our brains are developed enough to know this. That's what makes it morally wrong to kill a human in whatever freak situation where they are about to die and are aware of who their killer is. It would be terrifying to a human to know they're about to die--they would be SCARED. 

Animals like foxes will never know that fear because they don't understand death, how death occurs, why it's going to happen, or even when it's going to happen.
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No1GarDehT Featured By Owner May 24, 2014  Student General Artist
I have nothing against furs as long as the animal isn't tortured or skinned alive (as they do in China sometimes). But saying animals don't fear death I wouldn't agree on. Animals do fear death. Even if they don't know it's going to happen. Otherwise they like other animals would strive so hard to live in the wilderness. Animals do have emotions. Some birds commit suicide when their mate dies because its just that painful. And I witnessed a mother dog cry for ten minutes straight in the middle of te street when her last puppy was taken from her. So yes. They fear death just as much as us  even if they don't know when it will happen. But it's not like all those people who have died in car crashes or terrorist attacks knew they were gonna die when they did. But that's life. Always throwing surprises at us. 
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PrimusGod Featured By Owner May 25, 2014
Actually, they don't skin animals alive in China. That was a video staged by PETA, who told the workers to skin those raccoon dogs alive. The workers were confused as to why PETA wanted them to do it, but they did it anyway. 

Skinning an animal alive will damage the pelt and more than likely get blood on it, and the more blood there is, the more time it takes to clean it. That's time any fur farmer would not want to waste. Obviously China wouldn't go about skinning live animals because it's dangerous and a waste of time.

I didn't say ALL animals didn't fear death. In fact, I never said that an animal doesn't fear death at all. Of course any living thing fears death if it is given the mental capacity to. What I said here was that foxes aren't given the opportunity to fear death because they don't understand/know that it's going to happen to them on a fur farm. NOT that they can't fear death.

By the way, crying or killing oneself over the death of another is not showing fear of death. It is showing sadness, so please don't try to combine those two events with some notion of animals fearing death, thanks. 
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No1GarDehT Featured By Owner May 25, 2014  Student General Artist
Well some (notice i say some) people eat dead babies there. This isn't a joke. I've seen a pictured of it. 
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PrimusGod Featured By Owner May 27, 2014
I'm not sure why you're bringing up them eating dead babies, because it has nothing to do with this. 
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AuBurneyT-Keswick Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2014  Hobbyist Artist
TO QUOTE POPS FROM 'REGULAR SHOW': GOOD SHOW! JOLLY GOOD SHOW INDEED! :highfive:
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:iconbeau-diddly:
beau-diddly Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
If we were ranched, how would we know we were going to die if no one told us?

I'm sure if somehow you could 'tell' a fox it was going to die, it would be somewhat distressed.  I mean, even bacteria will attempt to avoid a situation that will kill them..! Anyone who's ever owned a pet dog/cat or watched migrating birds must consider that higher life forms probably have a sense of 'in the future' as opposed to the present, if not a developed sense of time.

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:iconprimusgod:
PrimusGod Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2014
Because we learn and interpret much more quickly and better than animals like foxes. 

That's why we can also talk but they can't. Even if we are raised on a ranch as babies, we will pick up on the language and figure out what happens. Word would spread from ranched human to ranched human when someone is killed, or when the season for killing is near. 

If a fox KNEW that killing was happening, it probably would be warning other foxes about it, and they would struggle whenever a handler comes to take them. Of course, that doesn't happen because they don't KNOW nor UNDERSTAND that they will die. I've seen enough foxes on the ranch being killed to know that there's no such thing as a spreading panic between foxes whenever she goes out to kill a selection of them. 

I have owned both a cat and a dog, and neither have ever had a sense of "in the future", whatever the heck that is supposed to mean. 

You're talking about migrating birds, which is completely different from the topic of "killing an animal". That's hundreds of years of instinct telling them to move to warmer climate because it will be cold and they will die if they don't. Dogs don't migrate. Cats don't migrate. Because they're domestic. The migration thing doesn't really have a place here because it's domestic versus wild. 
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:iconbeau-diddly:
beau-diddly Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
That's like saying foxes bark and we don't. How a species communicates is hardly relevant to whether they fear death or not.

'In the future', as in a domestic animal 'learns' what time its owner normally comes home or what time they normally get fed/go for a walk.

Of course it is instinct- just like avoiding something that will kill you- but it's also something that requires stocking up on energy reserves, picking a day when the weather is good, etc, all skills which suggest the animal has a concept of something happening in the future.

But my entire point was that foxes (or any animal bred for food or fur or whatever) probably don't fear death because they don't know it's going to happen. If, however, they did know, they possibly would fear it.

Kind of like putting your hand on a hot stove. If you didn't know it was hot, you probably wouldn't mind putting your hand on it. If you did, then (hopefully) you would think twice about touching it.


"Animals like foxes will never know that fear because they don't understand death, how death occurs, why it's going to happen, or even when it's going to happen" is somewhat an odd statement. Why do foxes run when my dogs chase them or get out of the way of a moving vehicle? Could it be that they perceive danger and take steps to avoid it?
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PrimusGod Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2014
All that migrating animal is doing is predicting what will happen in the future, not actually knowing what will happen. It doesn't know if it's going to die because the weather was too crappy too many days for it to migrate, or if it'd be perfect weather for its chance to fly. 

Your entire point was basically my entire point. xD 

Foxes run when your dogs chase because it's instinct. Foxes would also run from coyotes and wolves and humans (wild foxes we're talking about here) because it's perceived danger. All they know is that it's bad, and that these giant monsters' touch is bad. They do not know the consequences of what would happen if they were to get caught by one of these dangers. 

Even if their mother was killed in front of them by, say, a wolf, by the wolf tearing him up, that fear was already manifested by hundreds of years of instinct being bred into them. Then again, this is a bad example, because mothers are what teach the pups to fear the big monsters, and if it dies from a wolf, the fox is more likely to take that wolf as its mentor (assuming the wolf doesn't destroy it by then xD). I mean, instincts may have kicked in if the pup would be OLDER, but not in one so young. Gahhhghghh, so many POSSIBILITIES to this theory. Too little time to explain it all! 8D
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beau-diddly Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
That was me trying to prove my crap about 'in the future', lol... I am aware that animals can't see into the future...

Yeah, I know :aww:
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